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[研究讨论] 没法做到这种程度的话,最好别在作品中用外来语

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发表于 2008-5-19 03:38 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
(我终于还是发了)
    汉语的对于词性和时态之类在字面上的变化,比起创作中很流行的西方语言要少。如果随便用网络汉英词典查出几个词扔进去的话,被稍有该语言知识的人看到就只会丢人现眼而已。最近在原创区和群里都吐了不少这样的槽(就不举例了=。=),感觉有进行广域警告的必要。
    以下是我用英文重写的触手骑士开头一小段。虽然基于文化差异,某些部分不可能完全翻译,但自认还是能表达原意的,而且是以语法错误极少的形式。相比翻译他人的作品,对于自己文章的意思自己应该是最清楚的,从而在选择词语等方面的难度也应该会降低。如果还是觉得没有能力作出这样的处理,就还是尽量少用外来语,而且特别是在标题这种相当于文章脸面和第一印象的地方——有人连自己名字都写错的话,别人会觉得这人没文化吧。
省得丢人。

Tentacled Rider Lovecraft

Ep1 Gloom! Claws from the Darkness

    "Hey! Did you read the new chapter?"

    "Yeah. XX is actually one of OO's cronies! Who could've imagined..."

    "No problem, YY is already on the Holy Swordmaster level. Not even 10 XXs could beat him!”

    Since I walked through the school gate, the air’s been full of conversation like this. In a futile attempt to cover it all, I turned my ipod up, AGAIN.

    "Don’t you forget to vote for him!”

    "Sure. Who could do five updates a day, after all?”

    Go vote ur mom. Five updates a day, what kind of rushed sh*t could come from that? Even essays would take a week to finish. Of course, you can only say this to yourself. These stuff are all that people talk about these days, even in the classroom. Someone saw me coming in, and came right towards me.

    "Hey Uncle Rong. Don’t you want to even try this? It’s HOT these days, man. Here, look at this one.”

    "Negative. Don’t call me Uncle either. Do I really look that old?” That book had a picture of Mobile Fighter Gandam on its cover, combined with the title which font doesn’t really fit. Cheap rip-off, I would say. I shoved it aside, and felt a tug on my sleeve.

    "Don’t be sooooo harsh! Aren’t we friends?”

    Yeah, friends, once upon a time. We’ve been playing along since kindergarten. I used to have many friends in this class, but we lost everything in common since those came into fashion. I hated those books, or things that can barely be called books. I couldn’t get angry with this guy who’s been my friend for so long, however.

    "Hey Uncle. Come, tell me something about this question. I raided too hard last night and didn’t read at all.”
Nice timing, Mullet! I tried to show the guy a face full of “Sorry, next time” and rushed to Mullet’s desk, seeing that the page on his open notebook is quite full of work.

    "Don't worry, I'll try to convince him! Is that one called Robot Wars: Star Legends?” What a brilliant smile, as if he was really going to do that. Well, I could never get along with people that well. He became friends with the whole class in less than week after transferring from abroad. Of course, he reads those stuff too, but there's no sign of him being addicted. That's why he could get me out of situations like this from time to time.

    "Ring~~~~"

    People returned to their seats as the bell went off, their faces full of disappointment due to their "heated discussion" being disrupted. Well, I hated reading time, but I hated the noise even more.

    The guy who showed me the book was reading it, hiding it under his desk and paying no attention to the textbook. About one third of the class was doing the same. Out of the two thirds left, one third clearly didn't have their minds on the textbook either, perhaps thinking about the stories? Among people reading the textbook aloud, strange voices began to rise in volume.

    "He slowly unbuckles ZZZ's......"

    "%^$%&^&*(No, I don't know how to translate this. If I knew I would be doing an English version I would have used Abracadabra instead), Hyper-Charged Eye of DOOM!!!"

    "We have three continents on this world, on which lay fourteen countries, and there are seventy-two stars in the sky."

    My eyes met with those of our elderly teacher at the lectern. We both sighed, shook our heads, and smiled, bitterly.

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发表于 2008-5-19 06:29 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2008-5-19 07:13 | 显示全部楼层
如果仅仅是引用外语的话,也并不如何需要做到有对外语又多深厚的研究把。
发表于 2008-5-19 07:14 | 显示全部楼层
我不明白楼主什么意思, 难道用外语词一定要会用外语写一篇文章,一定知道怎么翻译自己的文章?

楼主也说了现在这种现象的发生是因为作者随便从字典里直接翻译过来,但如果是经过谨慎的参考呢?我认为最主要的是作者必须持有 “ 钻牛角尖” 的耐心,必须要知道自己在说什么,如果自己都不知道什么意思,自己都对择词没有信心,那还是不要用了。

这里的人可能都是业余的,可能没有放多大的毅力在写作上面,(我不是说全部的人)所以才闹出笑话。甚至我自己都有点缺乏毅力信心了。。

所以写作难啊。
发表于 2008-5-19 08:38 | 显示全部楼层
LZ说的是在写作中混用‘外来词’吧。
嘛,怎么说呢……
连自己文章本身的语言都没吃透,用几个英文完全没有意义。
还不如去好好把中文词打磨两遍,绝对比英文方便。
现在是被英语阅读、写作磨到发疯的状态,同一个词有好几种意思,一个意思可以对应不少词……
就算你拿字典去翻,中文解释中一个字的差异就可能导致整个意思的偏重。
拿英文名词也就算了,其它词性生手一用就错。《----这是吓人的夸张说法。
发表于 2008-5-19 08:43 | 显示全部楼层
想要装X却不引用外来语是impossible的!(耶,成功引用外来语《----死

其实某些外来语的引用是很有喜剧效果的……详情参见ScR里的东乡来的……
发表于 2008-5-19 09:21 | 显示全部楼层
我是一般不用外语的……只是喜欢引用典故……
走开……还在考四级的某可怜女孩上
发表于 2008-5-19 09:58 | 显示全部楼层
(抹汗)就算化石大人这么说,自己大概还是会使用……这是没有办法的事情,总不能一个西方文化体系的家伙满口中文吧……(自己之所以不习惯某些“中国轻小说”出现日本名大概就是因为那些对话语句一点日语感觉都没有)
不过,滥用终究不大好,话说,自己还是喜欢用单词(呀,其实有个英文名的武器很酷呢~发动技能的时候很热血地咆哮一声……)。
发表于 2008-5-19 11:21 | 显示全部楼层
如果照楼主这么矜持的做法,日本人写小说的基本上都可以买块豆腐撞墙了……

当然,崇洋媚外是不好的,我天朝语言不存在无法表达的东西呢,所以,不盲目用外来语是正确的做法!
发表于 2008-5-19 11:24 | 显示全部楼层
我认同阿!在文区在写研都有很多E文不怎么还要引人发笑的主。
唉,中文的水平还没练到能发文,就凑E文的热闹。
发表于 2008-5-19 12:12 | 显示全部楼层
要看怎么用吧,如果是用在某个角色的对话中——就算经常用错,那也是那角色的个性 ,但如果用在关键位上……那几乎等于找死。
发表于 2008-5-19 12:24 | 显示全部楼层
嗯.......看來本人體內某處還殘留恐懼外文的毒瘤。
真是學而不精....
发表于 2008-5-19 12:46 | 显示全部楼层
虽然外来语在掌握上确实困难。
但也没有必要提出那么高的要求吧。。。。。。
很多小说中必须以外来语出现,如咒文什么的。。。。
这个时候,使用一下不是很好的吗?
而且日本的那些小说家们更可笑。。。。。。不要说文法,就是拼写有时都出问题
发表于 2008-5-19 12:57 | 显示全部楼层
很大程度上,LZ是叫我们都不要把英文写进文章里了……
发表于 2008-5-19 13:03 | 显示全部楼层
这个么…翻译这种事是很困难的…用其他语言翻译一篇文章就和再创作一遍是一样的,俺觉得把外来语翻译成自己母语的效果是最好的,有时就算是作者本人也不见得能翻得多好,泰戈尔自己翻的英文吉勯迦利俺觉得就没有英译本好…虽然英译本和原本有不少地方意思有偏差…
发表于 2008-5-19 13:12 | 显示全部楼层
这个跟作者的风格有关,不过我感觉还是先把中文练好再说
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发表于 2008-5-19 14:28 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2008-5-22 01:28 | 显示全部楼层
人类的历史,文化,事件——一切可利用素材都是为小说服务的。
如果需要考据的话恐怕不止外来语而已。
lz这样说只能让我觉得其实你只不过想秀一下自己的外语程度有多高=  =
发表于 2008-5-22 04:33 | 显示全部楼层
不是故意秀,这个我是知道的,早在一个月前,楼主就提出这样的观点了。

我来补充一下
有人说日文写作,他们插进外来语,这个是不错的,但大家是否注意到日文和英文之间有相对比较和谐的语法关系,还有语顺关系?
世界之所以说中文难学,那是因为我们的思考顺序就和人家是相反的,而要在中文中插外文,如果不是有足够的能力驾驭,很可能会影响我们对中文的语感
举个例子吧,我在百度看到有人帖文,下面的人都说看不懂。
我一看,完全是日文语序,几乎都是颠倒的——作者大人明白啊,可读者一看,心里怎么想?这人中国话都不会说了!

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发表于 2008-5-22 10:44 | 显示全部楼层
某些外来语的引用很有喜剧效果。

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